PST
pacific standard time

Root
digitalmediatree

My Stuff
Current Page of PST
Daily Kos Diary
Trailers of Mass Desctruction
.......... Trailers of Mass Destruction -- old page
War of Words with Syria
water craft -- a paddling blog


PowerPoints of Terror
.......... Meet the War President
.......... Presidential Radio Address
.......... The Bush Doctrine Part II
.......... Union, State of
.......... Balloon Core of Death
.......... Vans of Mass Destruction
.......... Balloons of Mass Destruction
.......... Balloon Terror Alert System
.......... Nexus of Mass Destruction

Bumpersticker Gallery -- over 100!
.......... Bush 1984 + 19

Dr. Paul's Words of Wisdom
.......... a sampling of highlights
.......... Sea of Oil IISS, Guardian, etc.
.......... Bureaucracy Vanity Fair
.......... Democracy
.......... Politics
.......... all the instruments of national power
.......... money for warfighting Aug 2001???
.......... Lithuania Scenario

NYC 9/2000 photo essay
one lap archive

Sound track
west: your source for sound
south: the sound of NOLA
east: freeform radio

Political Blogs and/or Funnypages
All Hat No Cattle
alicublog
Alt Hippo
Bartcop
Bartcop E!
Big, Left, Outside
Body and Soul
Busy, Busy, Busy
California Insider
The Commons
Creek Running North
Crooks and Liars
Cursor
The Daily Howler
Daily KOS
Scooby Davis
DC Media Girl
Eschaton
Fanatical Apathy
the felonious elephant
feministe
firedoglake
Get Your War On
The Goddess
the girl gets away
Grand Moff Texan's Moment of Triumph
Hairy Fish Nuts
Harry Shearer
Happy Furry Puppy Story Time with Norbizness
Hullabaloo
Insomnia
Jesus' General
Make Them Accountable
Margaret Cho
MaxSpeak
McSweeney's
mikhaela
Obsidian Wings
Opinions You Should Have
Orcinus
O'Reilly Sucks
Pandagon
Pharyngula
Political Animal
Political Velocity
August J. Pollack
The Poor Man
Propaganda Remix Project
Pro-War.com
Sadly, No!
Superhappyfun Blog!!!
TBogg
Ted Rall
The Road to Surfdom
Rough & Tumble
Rubber Nun
Slacktivist
South Knox Bubba
Talking Points Memo
TBH Politoon
This Modern World
thoughtcrimes.org
uggabugga
Uncle Ernie's Issues and Alibis
Very Very Happy
War and Piece
What She Said
Whiskey Bar
Whiskey Fire
Wizard of Whimsy
World O'Crap

Archives
The Memory Hole
Billmon's Iraqi WMD Quotations
Billmon's Iraqi Democracy Quotations
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace -- Intelligence on Iraq
Where Are They(tm)
Center for Cooperative Research 9/11 Timeline
US-Iraq Timeline







View current page
...more recent posts

Wednesday, Mar 07, 2007

Theocratic Luddite Rejects Neolithic as "Too Sciency"

Below I awarded theocratic luddite, Vox Day, the Pointy Stick Award for Practicing Ludditry with a Computer. In his response, he ridicules my implication that science was practiced during the neolithic. Now is a good time to introduce one of PZ Myers' definitions of science :

#3: Science is a process. It is a method for exploring the natural world by making observations, drawing inferences, and testing those inferences with further experimentation and observation. It isn't so much the data generated as it is a way of thinking critically about the universe and our own interpretations of it.
Sometime during the neolithic period, there were some curious types who wondered, "what will happen to this hunk of rock if I put it in a really hot fire -- no, not just hot, but really hot". And also wondered, "what about this hunk of rock, and that one?"

In the process, they discovered that certain ores bear copper and tin. And that those elements can be extracted with heat. And that when mixed in certain proportions the resulting "metallic object" will have various properties. Now, I'm sure that no lab coats, bunsen burners or PhD's were involved. But the activities that led to the rise of what has become known as the Bronze Age fall squarely within Myers' definition number three of science.

I'm also sure that there were naysayers, those who thought melting rock with fire was within the province of god, and god alone.
Vox Rocks: I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly happy with this pointy stick. I demand you stop practicing the black art of making bronze.

Neo: Dude, don't be a putz. Check this stuff out. It's freakin' awesome.

Vox Rocks: By the power of my pointy stick (swish, swish), I demand you stop! Engarde!

Neo: No, really, check out this blade. It will take your arm clean off. (slash!)

Vox Rocks: Aw, that's just a flesh wound.

etc.

- mark 3-07-2007 5:18 pm [link] [add a comment]

Give that man a mud tablet and a pointy stick

Serial psycho-blogger, Vox Day, has this to day about science:

there is real cause to doubt the continued benefit of science to modern society, or even its right to a respectable place within it.
For that, he is awarded the coveted Pointy Stick Award For Practicing Ludditry With A Computer.

cuniform


In his outpouring of blogorrhea, Day tries to apportion good things to "technology" and bad things to "science", and does nothing so much as illustrate his inability to understand what either is, or how they are related.

First, Day thinks that science and technology are inherently modern -- he pegs science as 200 years old. They've been with us for millenia. While the rate of change has grown over time, and will continue to grow, did not Archimedes do science when he took a bath on that storied day? And what separates the neolithic from the bronze age from the iron age? Could it be, oh I don't know, could it be something called TECHNOLOGY?! Vox Putz is more like it.

Day tries to drive home the point that technological advances come from engineers, not scientists, dammit! He points out that the integrated circuit was invented not by scientists, but by electrical engineers. Being one of those electrical engineer dudes myself, perhaps I can help Day out here a little bit. Electrical engineers, even at the baccalaureate level, are deeply steeped in advanced mathematics and multiple areas of science, with the specifics dependent upon the area of specialization. One of these areas of study is a little thing called "semiconductor physics". It's a science, and it's critical to the development any and all integrated circuits. Jack Kilby could not have invented for Texas Instruments the manufacturing simpification of fabricating multiple devices on a single substrate if he hadn't understand semiconductor physics in the first place.

Robert Noyce, who is credited for independently inventing the integrated circuit at Fairchild (although six months later), got his PhD in physics from MIT. That pretty much puts him in the "scientist" camp, so Day really doesn't have a god damned clue what he's talking about.

And by the way, Wozniak didn't invent the personal computer. It had already been around for years. The credit for Apple goes to Jobs, and not for technology -- his achievements are in an arena called "marketing."

Day believes that science isn't the driver behind technology, it's liberty and capital.
Furthermore, the benefits of science are hugely exaggerated. Most of the advances in human technology are a function of the wealth produced by capitalism and human liberty, as may be seen in the retarded technological development in countries with no shortage of education and scientists, but handicapped by anti-capitalist, anti-libertarian ideology.
What a poor, sad, silly little boy. If the US and the USSR had ever gotten to the point of a missile exchange, we could have seen up close and personal what kind of technology can be produced by a totalitarian nation with a centrally planned economy. Their technology was good enough to put us pretty close to the neolithic -- and we could have done the same to them.

While it is undeniable that capital and liberty play a role, they're not enough. During the British years, Hong Kong had ready access to capital and was about as close to laissez faire as a country has ever gotten. But the Hong Kong entrepreneurs were not the visionaries setting the pace. They were never more than highly competent followers.

Perhaps it is the confluence of science, capital and freedom that drives technological advancement. The magic mile in high tech venture capital is a place called Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park, California. Where is this magical place? It's a stone's throw from Stanford University, a place absolutely rife with scientists. It's in a high-tax state, but that state is known for what kind of freedom? Personal freedom. Why is that important? Because scientists and engineers are smart people who don't want to live in a place where smarmy, racist, theocratic little fucks like Vox Day have any political power to tell them how to live.

Among the many things well understood by those scientists, engineers and capitalists who create new wealth, yet not at all understood by theocratic luddites, this is but one.

- mark 3-07-2007 1:40 am [link] [2 refs] [add a comment]

older posts...