A message from the action man: "Actually, what interests me most about weblogs is (you should forgive the expression), memic propagation and amplification."
Sounds reasonable to me. What's all the fuss about? May a plague of frogs descend upon Dave Winer!
whats this digital dust-up about, whether or not the concept of memes are still relevant to the blogging experience, or relevant at all?
Well, it's all good natured as far as I can tell. Rageboy is Christopher Locke (bio) one of the authors of the cluetrain manifesto which is one of those management guru how-to type books that are often very popular. This one was actually very good as well. Or, at least, it seemed to give voice to what a lot of technical workers (not necessarily management or VC's) in the dotcom world felt the internet was all about (back in the bubble days, I mean.) Connecting people together. Facilitating conversations. Webloggers (being mostly technical dotcom workers) jumped all over these ideas. Human beings inside of companies should connect directly, through unmediated conversation, with customers - or, in other words, what should happen is the opposite of what does happens when you try to contact a large company, say, over the phone (where instead of connecting with a human, in a normal conversation, you connect with something that seems like a robot, but is really a human who is constrained by management policies from engaging in a conversation like a regular human.)
Anyway, there's no real serious dust up here, because I'm sure that the Cluetrain covers the basics of what Dave Winer believes too. Weblogs, and tools for webloggers, are about facilitating the conversation. (Or is it the Conversation?) My guess is that Locke has a new book coming out (or just out) and so now he's jumping into the blogging world to drum up some publicity and Dave's just giving him a little shit about it. Like "Hey, what's the big deal, we've been doing this for years and now you show up shouting about it like it's some big discovery - just pipe down and get to work on the conversation." Or something like that. And Locke, being a master self-promoter realizes that as long as Dave spells his name right (or gets the URL right) it doesn't matter what he says. And in fact it will probably drive traffic even higher if he can get a slightly contentious back and forth going with the Winer.
Or something like that. Everybody's selling something. These two are amazingly loud about it, but they're on the same side. And it's the side I'd pick too, if I had to pick sides. I just wouldn't want to sit between them at the table.
well, nice of the rager to give you a link on his page. now hes promoting you too. what are you marketing?
Yeah, that's his memic propogation and amplification plan. You link to him, he links to you, and you both soar skyward on the daypop ratings. That's it. I didn't even link to his blog, only to the discussion group article, but evidently he's not being too picky. Not that I mind.
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- jim 11-08-2001 3:38 pm
Sounds reasonable to me. What's all the fuss about? May a plague of frogs descend upon Dave Winer!
- RageBoy (guest) 11-09-2001 8:40 am
whats this digital dust-up about, whether or not the concept of memes are still relevant to the blogging experience, or relevant at all?
- dave 11-09-2001 6:46 pm
Well, it's all good natured as far as I can tell. Rageboy is Christopher Locke (bio) one of the authors of the cluetrain manifesto which is one of those management guru how-to type books that are often very popular. This one was actually very good as well. Or, at least, it seemed to give voice to what a lot of technical workers (not necessarily management or VC's) in the dotcom world felt the internet was all about (back in the bubble days, I mean.) Connecting people together. Facilitating conversations. Webloggers (being mostly technical dotcom workers) jumped all over these ideas. Human beings inside of companies should connect directly, through unmediated conversation, with customers - or, in other words, what should happen is the opposite of what does happens when you try to contact a large company, say, over the phone (where instead of connecting with a human, in a normal conversation, you connect with something that seems like a robot, but is really a human who is constrained by management policies from engaging in a conversation like a regular human.)
Anyway, there's no real serious dust up here, because I'm sure that the Cluetrain covers the basics of what Dave Winer believes too. Weblogs, and tools for webloggers, are about facilitating the conversation. (Or is it the Conversation?) My guess is that Locke has a new book coming out (or just out) and so now he's jumping into the blogging world to drum up some publicity and Dave's just giving him a little shit about it. Like "Hey, what's the big deal, we've been doing this for years and now you show up shouting about it like it's some big discovery - just pipe down and get to work on the conversation." Or something like that. And Locke, being a master self-promoter realizes that as long as Dave spells his name right (or gets the URL right) it doesn't matter what he says. And in fact it will probably drive traffic even higher if he can get a slightly contentious back and forth going with the Winer.
Or something like that. Everybody's selling something. These two are amazingly loud about it, but they're on the same side. And it's the side I'd pick too, if I had to pick sides. I just wouldn't want to sit between them at the table.
- jim 11-09-2001 7:26 pm
well, nice of the rager to give you a link on his page. now hes promoting you too. what are you marketing?
- dave 11-09-2001 7:36 pm
Yeah, that's his memic propogation and amplification plan. You link to him, he links to you, and you both soar skyward on the daypop ratings. That's it. I didn't even link to his blog, only to the discussion group article, but evidently he's not being too picky. Not that I mind.
- jim 11-09-2001 7:41 pm