etymology request: any body got anything better than this. the name of an LA coffeehouse ?
anything to do with this other fifth?
I remember the Fifth Estate from the hippie days in Detroit. It was a John Sinclair/White Panther organ. I’ve still got a copy somewhere, including the lyrics to “Just Like an Aborigine” by the Up, who succeeded the MC5 as the official Panther band. I saw them play at a 5th Estate sponsored rally circa 1971.
If you looked up 1st, 2nd 3rd, or 4th Estate you’d have found the origin. Carlyle added the press as a 4th Estate to the traditional 3 divisions of the Estates-General; the 5th Estate was a conceit of revolutionary-minded folks in the mid 20th century to define their place in the social structure.
thanks. but their not connected, right?
I’m not sure if there’s any connection between 5th Estate and 5th Column. The ultimate origins are separate, but there may have been a pun implied: that the 5th Estate is a sort of 5th Column which could undermine the country from within, but that it had the legitimacy of an Estate-General, at least in the minds of people who felt that their “revolution” was justified. I’m not sure who came up with 5th Estate; I didn’t know about the coffee house name, but that’s my guess as to their anarchic thinking.
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anything to do with this other fifth?
- bill 9-09-2005 4:58 pm
I remember the Fifth Estate from the hippie days in Detroit. It was a John Sinclair/White Panther organ. I’ve still got a copy somewhere, including the lyrics to “Just Like an Aborigine” by the Up, who succeeded the MC5 as the official Panther band. I saw them play at a 5th Estate sponsored rally circa 1971.
If you looked up 1st, 2nd 3rd, or 4th Estate you’d have found the origin. Carlyle added the press as a 4th Estate to the traditional 3 divisions of the Estates-General; the 5th Estate was a conceit of revolutionary-minded folks in the mid 20th century to define their place in the social structure.
- alex 9-09-2005 5:39 pm [add a comment]
thanks. but their not connected, right?
- bill 9-09-2005 6:55 pm [add a comment]
I’m not sure if there’s any connection between 5th Estate and 5th Column. The ultimate origins are separate, but there may have been a pun implied: that the 5th Estate is a sort of 5th Column which could undermine the country from within, but that it had the legitimacy of an Estate-General, at least in the minds of people who felt that their “revolution” was justified. I’m not sure who came up with 5th Estate; I didn’t know about the coffee house name, but that’s my guess as to their anarchic thinking.
- alex 9-09-2005 7:45 pm [add a comment]