netroots have gravel fever. catch it!
Who won the debate, if anyone?
Biden 379 votes - 3 %
Clinton 1287 votes - 12 %
Dodd 201 votes - 1 %
Edwards 1954 votes - 19 %
Gravel 1072 votes - 10 %
Kucinich 516 votes - 5 %
Obama 1861 votes - 18 %
Richardson 597 votes - 5 %
More than one of the above 1159 votes - 11 %
None of the above 1247 votes - 12 %
Cloudy
My thoughts are scattered and they're cloudy,
They have no borders, no boundaries.
They echo and they swell
From Tolstoy to Tinker Bell.
Down from Berkeley to Carmel.
Got some pictures in my pocket and a lot of time to kill.
I think it's lucky Giuliani is a GOP front-runner, because I think he is a weak presidential candidate, and after watching the "debate" last night I think all the Dem front runners look pretty weak too, so maybe at least we have a crapshoot. Hillary I think will not make it, although I would guess she's probably got the best machine behind her., and that certainly counts for something. She is hard to listen to (which surprised me, I did not know she was that hard to listen to.) Obama, I don't know, president seems like an awful big jump for him. A woman and a black man as two front runners, those crazy Democrats. Edwards? eh maybe, but something ain't right there. Could do worse though. Richardson was Ok. Most definitely did not dislike him. Ok, I liked him. Gravel was fun. If he made it to the end I would vote for him just as a "I don't care, fuck this world" vote. Dodd is kind of boring but I would like to hear more from him. Got some experience going on. Biden and Kucinich don't have the legs for this field.
i watched most of the first hour but was distracted by telephone calls and my incessant snark. outside of gravels theatrics there wasnt much positive i took away from it. i dont think richardson came across well, it sounded like obama has been taking stentorian lessons from kerry, clinton is still woodier than a deciduous tree and edwards was staking out the "i feel your pain" position with biden dodd and kucinich as the speak see and hear no evil monkeys. i was leaning obama but if the election were today i might pull the trigger for edwards. but plenty of time to flip-flop around. maybe ill even listen to what they have to say. nice to have the old codger in there to muck things up. meanwhile, the useless joe klein is already proselytize for his removal from the debates because he is not a serious candidate. fucking uber-wanker.
some reactions via mydd.
The highlight of the night for many was the exchange between Gravel and Obama on Iran. Crooks and Liars Logan Murphy posts video of the moment and comments: "Senator Barack Obama was asked a question about global warming and when his answer strayed into the area of terrorism, Dennis Kucinich took the opportunity to challenge Obama on a past statement that nothing was off the table when it came to Iran. Not one to pull any punches, Mike Gravel wasted no time in making his views on Iran crystal clear." A highly rated comment on Daily Kos reads: "Gravel and Kucinich are helping to move the goalposts. Kucinich and Gravel speak truth to power..."
TAPPED's Sam Rosenfeld argued Gravel and Kucinich served a different purpose: "I think it was obvious, by the way all the other candidates repeatedly jumped at the chance to change whatever the subject was at hand and readdress remarks about terrorism and the use of force made by Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, that they considered those two candidates to be invaluable tools for "see, we're not like that" differentiation. Everyone could make the easy points about being against this war, not all wars always, reiterating the seriousness of the threat of transnational terrorism and the legitimacy of force in the face of real threats, etc."
CLINTON DEBATE: Not The Devil After All
Daily Kos' OneCharmingBastard: "Man, she's tough as f***ing nails and smart as a whip - as much as it pains me to say it, she'd be one amazing President.
Daily Kos' WhyWhat: "Hillary is not the Devil some of Kossacks make her out to be."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Okay. Still doing a public speech rather than speaking to the public."
DODD DEBATE: Exceeding Expectations
Daily Kos' teacherken: "The one who in my mind has done the best job of exceeding expectations is Dodd, although I don't think it does him any good."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Damn impressive. The only one who hits me as presidential this evening. Speaks well. Knows his stuff. Sincere."
Daily Kos' klnb: "I am more and more impressed with Senator Dodd. He's smart - he's well-spoken - and he's ... uh... smart."
EDWARDS DEBATE: If He Did So Well, Then Why The Bad Debate Polling?
Daily Kos' LNK: "A+ to Edwards for mentioning next generation who are being wooed by the terrorists....That we should use more tools than bombs....Bring next generation who are on the fence, bring them over to our side."
The Blue State: "John Edwards wins first debate. John Edwards - Most straight-forward in his answers. Clearly came off the best. He had a lot riding on this debate, and came up big."
Daily Kos' Georgia10: "I also LOVED Edwards' line about asking the American people to be patriotic about something other than war. Brilliant."
MyDD's Benstrader: "I have no problem with Edwards's pause and saying he couldn't think of one person, but then his response was "My Lord" and with a shrug. I think it was a bad question, but it was a softball, and he could have knocked it out of the park and said his wife for the courage and conviction she has shown in absolutely tragic times."
MyDD's David Mizner: "Edwards gave the best answers--"we need weapons other than bombs"--but his delivery could have been sharper, more energetic. He needs to bring some of his stump energy into the debates. And I'm pretty sure he didn't raise his hand when asked if he believed there's a global war on terror--that shocked and pleased me."
GRAVEL DEBATE: Give 'Em Zell!
MyDD's Winston Smith: "Winner is Gravel. Winning for him is relative, of course, since he is struggling to break into the third tier. He might have been able to do so tonight. We'll see if he breaks out of the 0% margin of error."
Daily Kos' Frandor55: "Gravel To Be Guest On Daily Show? ... Stewart has to get this guy. He is entertaining.
MyDD's Fitzy: "But, while I agreed with a lot of what he said, he came across as a progressive Zell Miller. ... But for calling himself an "elder statesman," he came across more like the old lady that writes long, rambling letters to the editor every day.
The Plank's Michael Crowley: "Mike Gravel, doing his earnest best to destroy the Democratic party's image. Can't someone intervene to get him out of future debates?"
OBAMA DEBATE: Better At Set Pieces
MyDD's littafi: "I thought Obama and Richardson were trying to sound hawkish."
MyDD's adamterando: "As far as Obama. I really didn't like his response about Iran. To me it felt like September 2002 all over again when he said we know that Iran is trying to build a nuclear weapon. Do we really know that or are we being fed a line again because a bunch of hawks want to go to war?"
Lane Hudson at The Huffington Post: "Most people probably wondered why he was engaging the crazy guy from Alaska. Obama also maintained the status quo. ... He was not able to connect real policy proposals with his gifted transformational speaking style.
Daily Kos' teacherken: "Obama not as a effective as it is hearing him in person, or when he gives a set speech."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Looks young, too young. Doesn't sound very comfortable."
Blue Hampshire's Laura: "Obama didn't need this as badly, but I at least was left with the sense that he should have been better prepared, not for the subject matter but for the form. However, he distinguished himself on a few answers, as when he called out Brian Williams' use of an out-of-context quote about Palestinians - he responded firmly and with great control."
RICHARDSON DEBATE: Swing And A Miss
MyDD's nevadadem: "Richardson clearly lost, any idea of him getting traction in the blogosphere war really shot down I thought."
TAPPED's Scott Lemieux: "I like Bill Richardson, and hope that he becomes a viable candidate in the primary. But his choice of "Whizzer White" as his ideal Supreme Court Justice in tonight's debate is...odd. Myself, I would prefer a justice who was on the right side of (just for starters) Roe, Miranda, and Bowers."
MyDD's Fitzy: "Bill Richardson disappointed me tonight. I still like him a lot, and he's got the best resume in America. But with his experience and his knowledge, I honestly expected him to run circles around everyone else with policy questions."
|
Who won the debate, if anyone?
Biden 379 votes - 3 %
Clinton 1287 votes - 12 %
Dodd 201 votes - 1 %
Edwards 1954 votes - 19 %
Gravel 1072 votes - 10 %
Kucinich 516 votes - 5 %
Obama 1861 votes - 18 %
Richardson 597 votes - 5 %
More than one of the above 1159 votes - 11 %
None of the above 1247 votes - 12 %
- dave 4-27-2007 4:15 pm
Cloudy
My thoughts are scattered and they're cloudy,
They have no borders, no boundaries.
They echo and they swell
From Tolstoy to Tinker Bell.
Down from Berkeley to Carmel.
Got some pictures in my pocket and a lot of time to kill.
- dave 4-27-2007 10:41 pm
I think it's lucky Giuliani is a GOP front-runner, because I think he is a weak presidential candidate, and after watching the "debate" last night I think all the Dem front runners look pretty weak too, so maybe at least we have a crapshoot. Hillary I think will not make it, although I would guess she's probably got the best machine behind her., and that certainly counts for something. She is hard to listen to (which surprised me, I did not know she was that hard to listen to.) Obama, I don't know, president seems like an awful big jump for him. A woman and a black man as two front runners, those crazy Democrats. Edwards? eh maybe, but something ain't right there. Could do worse though. Richardson was Ok. Most definitely did not dislike him. Ok, I liked him. Gravel was fun. If he made it to the end I would vote for him just as a "I don't care, fuck this world" vote. Dodd is kind of boring but I would like to hear more from him. Got some experience going on. Biden and Kucinich don't have the legs for this field.
- jimlouis 4-28-2007 3:34 am
i watched most of the first hour but was distracted by telephone calls and my incessant snark. outside of gravels theatrics there wasnt much positive i took away from it. i dont think richardson came across well, it sounded like obama has been taking stentorian lessons from kerry, clinton is still woodier than a deciduous tree and edwards was staking out the "i feel your pain" position with biden dodd and kucinich as the speak see and hear no evil monkeys. i was leaning obama but if the election were today i might pull the trigger for edwards. but plenty of time to flip-flop around. maybe ill even listen to what they have to say. nice to have the old codger in there to muck things up. meanwhile, the useless joe klein is already proselytize for his removal from the debates because he is not a serious candidate. fucking uber-wanker.
- dave 4-28-2007 4:04 am
some reactions via mydd.
The highlight of the night for many was the exchange between Gravel and Obama on Iran. Crooks and Liars Logan Murphy posts video of the moment and comments: "Senator Barack Obama was asked a question about global warming and when his answer strayed into the area of terrorism, Dennis Kucinich took the opportunity to challenge Obama on a past statement that nothing was off the table when it came to Iran. Not one to pull any punches, Mike Gravel wasted no time in making his views on Iran crystal clear." A highly rated comment on Daily Kos reads: "Gravel and Kucinich are helping to move the goalposts. Kucinich and Gravel speak truth to power..."
TAPPED's Sam Rosenfeld argued Gravel and Kucinich served a different purpose: "I think it was obvious, by the way all the other candidates repeatedly jumped at the chance to change whatever the subject was at hand and readdress remarks about terrorism and the use of force made by Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel, that they considered those two candidates to be invaluable tools for "see, we're not like that" differentiation. Everyone could make the easy points about being against this war, not all wars always, reiterating the seriousness of the threat of transnational terrorism and the legitimacy of force in the face of real threats, etc."
CLINTON DEBATE: Not The Devil After All
Daily Kos' OneCharmingBastard: "Man, she's tough as f***ing nails and smart as a whip - as much as it pains me to say it, she'd be one amazing President.
Daily Kos' WhyWhat: "Hillary is not the Devil some of Kossacks make her out to be."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Okay. Still doing a public speech rather than speaking to the public."
DODD DEBATE: Exceeding Expectations
Daily Kos' teacherken: "The one who in my mind has done the best job of exceeding expectations is Dodd, although I don't think it does him any good."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Damn impressive. The only one who hits me as presidential this evening. Speaks well. Knows his stuff. Sincere."
Daily Kos' klnb: "I am more and more impressed with Senator Dodd. He's smart - he's well-spoken - and he's ... uh... smart."
EDWARDS DEBATE: If He Did So Well, Then Why The Bad Debate Polling?
Daily Kos' LNK: "A+ to Edwards for mentioning next generation who are being wooed by the terrorists....That we should use more tools than bombs....Bring next generation who are on the fence, bring them over to our side."
The Blue State: "John Edwards wins first debate. John Edwards - Most straight-forward in his answers. Clearly came off the best. He had a lot riding on this debate, and came up big."
Daily Kos' Georgia10: "I also LOVED Edwards' line about asking the American people to be patriotic about something other than war. Brilliant."
MyDD's Benstrader: "I have no problem with Edwards's pause and saying he couldn't think of one person, but then his response was "My Lord" and with a shrug. I think it was a bad question, but it was a softball, and he could have knocked it out of the park and said his wife for the courage and conviction she has shown in absolutely tragic times."
MyDD's David Mizner: "Edwards gave the best answers--"we need weapons other than bombs"--but his delivery could have been sharper, more energetic. He needs to bring some of his stump energy into the debates. And I'm pretty sure he didn't raise his hand when asked if he believed there's a global war on terror--that shocked and pleased me."
GRAVEL DEBATE: Give 'Em Zell!
MyDD's Winston Smith: "Winner is Gravel. Winning for him is relative, of course, since he is struggling to break into the third tier. He might have been able to do so tonight. We'll see if he breaks out of the 0% margin of error."
Daily Kos' Frandor55: "Gravel To Be Guest On Daily Show? ... Stewart has to get this guy. He is entertaining.
MyDD's Fitzy: "But, while I agreed with a lot of what he said, he came across as a progressive Zell Miller. ... But for calling himself an "elder statesman," he came across more like the old lady that writes long, rambling letters to the editor every day.
The Plank's Michael Crowley: "Mike Gravel, doing his earnest best to destroy the Democratic party's image. Can't someone intervene to get him out of future debates?"
OBAMA DEBATE: Better At Set Pieces
MyDD's littafi: "I thought Obama and Richardson were trying to sound hawkish."
MyDD's adamterando: "As far as Obama. I really didn't like his response about Iran. To me it felt like September 2002 all over again when he said we know that Iran is trying to build a nuclear weapon. Do we really know that or are we being fed a line again because a bunch of hawks want to go to war?"
Lane Hudson at The Huffington Post: "Most people probably wondered why he was engaging the crazy guy from Alaska. Obama also maintained the status quo. ... He was not able to connect real policy proposals with his gifted transformational speaking style.
Daily Kos' teacherken: "Obama not as a effective as it is hearing him in person, or when he gives a set speech."
AMERICAblog's John Aravosis: "Looks young, too young. Doesn't sound very comfortable."
Blue Hampshire's Laura: "Obama didn't need this as badly, but I at least was left with the sense that he should have been better prepared, not for the subject matter but for the form. However, he distinguished himself on a few answers, as when he called out Brian Williams' use of an out-of-context quote about Palestinians - he responded firmly and with great control."
RICHARDSON DEBATE: Swing And A Miss
MyDD's nevadadem: "Richardson clearly lost, any idea of him getting traction in the blogosphere war really shot down I thought."
TAPPED's Scott Lemieux: "I like Bill Richardson, and hope that he becomes a viable candidate in the primary. But his choice of "Whizzer White" as his ideal Supreme Court Justice in tonight's debate is...odd. Myself, I would prefer a justice who was on the right side of (just for starters) Roe, Miranda, and Bowers."
MyDD's Fitzy: "Bill Richardson disappointed me tonight. I still like him a lot, and he's got the best resume in America. But with his experience and his knowledge, I honestly expected him to run circles around everyone else with policy questions."
- dave 4-28-2007 4:06 am