much better. i hope they retire prozac joe. the only good thing about him is that hes not entirely feckless. we dont need to see collegial joe either. id drop the "mean girls" meme though. just reinforces the notion that democrats are weak.
i mean, come on democrats, someone named jane smiley, talks tougher than you! - dave 9-06-2008 2:15 pm
BO did welll against HC by staying above the (her) fray. i appreciate the honest anger, but... it doesnt raise the level of debate, discourse. its a reflex response to "their" frame. ok, correct the record and move on. im hoping they take the high road and not dignify the rove model. thats change.
also so-far the post convention mcpalin appearances are all re-reads of the convention speech scripts. from what i saw palins no good with out a tele-prompter (that tv sports caster training) looking down into her hand at the crib notes that appeared to be memorized at the convention speech. just my 2 cents. - bill 9-06-2008 2:43 pm
that worked pretty well for president kerry. - dave 9-06-2008 2:54 pm
I would think there needs to be some balance between the two. Too much angry response and you are falling into their trap, but not enough angry response and you are falling into their other trap, that one which charges you as an elitist (oh, he thinks he too high and mighty to even address our bullshit accusations). - jimlouis 9-06-2008 2:54 pm
kerry bought into the frame up. focus on real change vs fake change. - bill 9-06-2008 2:56 pm
i agree with jim but theres plenty to be authentically indignant about to reinforce the notion that you actually care enough to fight for real change. - dave 9-06-2008 3:05 pm
and kerry didnt buy into the frame up. he tried to rise up it. he never came up with a way to fight off the swift boat smears or the flipflopper claims. - dave 9-06-2008 3:07 pm
right, a balance. every morning they should take 3 minutes, correct the lies for the record and then move on to their real material and days work.
kerry was done in by "their" framing and their talking points. never set the agenda himself.
also: yesterday mccain re-used palins e.bay/plane auction fabrication. actually saying that it was "sold" on ebay and for a "profit." two lies. that misrepresentation was caught three days ago! we know it and he still doesnt?? out of touch???
edited for additional thought while jim l was posting.: additionally we now know since yesterday that it was sold to an alaskan inside contributer as a sweet deal. hence the careful wording in palins speech: "put on ebay" not "sold on ebay."
- bill 9-06-2008 3:18 pm
At least in her speech Palin's comment was less a fabrication than literary license to make it sound better. It was definitely misleading but not an outright lie. She only said she put the plane on Ebay, which is true. It just didn't sell there. McCain on the other hand... - jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:27 pm
Dammit Bill, you just keep on editing, make it sound like I didn't read your original comment. I'll just learn to wait on you a while longer. - jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:29 pm
sorry. im a little slow. ill write edited in. - bill 9-06-2008 3:30 pm
I forgive you brother. Meanwhile, even though it would seem the Dems should have plenty of ammunition to beat the hell out of the Red Menace, I think we should all be looking for people we know who may not be registered, and get them registered, and you know, voting for the right candidate. - jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:36 pm
the sweatheart deal is really the only story if there is one. also, the ebay was sort of a shout out to meg whitman, former ceo of ebay, who is one of mccains campaign chairs and who spoke at the convention before palin.
btw, im not anxious to get bogged down in this type of nonsense although it does speak to the larger notion of the republicans pathological need to lie. the truthiness shall set them free as it were.
- dave 9-06-2008 3:44 pm
"the sweatheart deal is really the only story"
right. except, now there is the preemptive cover story (with motive), fabrication, misrepresenation or lie depending on who and when its mentioned.
"the larger notion of the republicans pathological need to lie."
im sorry to say im leaving my position as campaign adviser to spend more time with my family. not coincidentally ive been asked to join cnns remarkable lineup of heroes, the best damn political team on television. that theyre paying me ten times as much money to deliver platitudes was entirely unrelated. i wish my friends in the obama camp well but ill be purely objective in my coverage of them from now on. - dave 9-06-2008 4:07 pm
Jerry's Disco, lol! Gotta love the original cast of SNL. Although I didn't recognize Ms. Whirlygig in the foreground. - mark 9-06-2008 4:17 pm
I think the Dems need to use a combination of anger and ridicule to punch holes in the propaganda. And they need to tell their own story. Based on my experiences in Space City in recent days, there's a whole lot of ignorance they have to combat in the next few weeks.
The Repubs have been successful in dealing with tight elections by motivating their base. Their job this time is to get their base to hold their noses and vote McCain. The Honky Mom angle helps a lot with the fundy whackos.
For the Dems, JimL is right, the key to motivating the base is getting natural Dems to get off their asses and participate. Every one who lives in a swing state (cough) Virginia (cough) needs to get their butts in gear. - mark 9-06-2008 4:24 pm
I think the dems should have one major talking point - the Iraq war is costing us 340 million dollars a day. No matter what comes up just keep hammering that. 343 million dollars every single day. We could fix any and every problem in this country if we weren't wasting 343 million dollars a day. That's 2 and a half BILLION dollars a week!
"How much did you make last week my friends? Well George Bush and John McCain spent 2 and a half BILLION dollars last week on an unnecessary war in Iraq. That's two thousand five hundred million dollars. LAST WEEK. That's money that could have been spent on schools; on health care; on police and fire departments; on building better levees in New Orleans; on buying ponies for everyone in America! Do you want to keep wasting 2 and a half Billion dollars a week? Vote for John McCain. If you want to fix America vote for Barack Obama."
I think most voters only care about money. Everything else is a sideshow. And the Republicans - who are spending more than any previous administration in the history of our country - have somehow convinced people that the Democratic party is going to spend all their money. Change that and we win; ignore it and we really might lose. - jim 9-06-2008 4:34 pm
I want a pony. - jimlouis 9-06-2008 6:37 pm
Well, if that's what you really want ... a pony. - mark 9-06-2008 11:11 pm
- mark 9-06-2008 7:10 am
much better. i hope they retire prozac joe. the only good thing about him is that hes not entirely feckless. we dont need to see collegial joe either. id drop the "mean girls" meme though. just reinforces the notion that democrats are weak. i mean, come on democrats, someone named jane smiley, talks tougher than you!
- dave 9-06-2008 2:15 pm
BO did welll against HC by staying above the (her) fray. i appreciate the honest anger, but... it doesnt raise the level of debate, discourse. its a reflex response to "their" frame. ok, correct the record and move on. im hoping they take the high road and not dignify the rove model. thats change.
also so-far the post convention mcpalin appearances are all re-reads of the convention speech scripts. from what i saw palins no good with out a tele-prompter (that tv sports caster training) looking down into her hand at the crib notes that appeared to be memorized at the convention speech. just my 2 cents.
- bill 9-06-2008 2:43 pm
that worked pretty well for president kerry.
- dave 9-06-2008 2:54 pm
I would think there needs to be some balance between the two. Too much angry response and you are falling into their trap, but not enough angry response and you are falling into their other trap, that one which charges you as an elitist (oh, he thinks he too high and mighty to even address our bullshit accusations).
- jimlouis 9-06-2008 2:54 pm
kerry bought into the frame up. focus on real change vs fake change.
- bill 9-06-2008 2:56 pm
i agree with jim but theres plenty to be authentically indignant about to reinforce the notion that you actually care enough to fight for real change.
- dave 9-06-2008 3:05 pm
and kerry didnt buy into the frame up. he tried to rise up it. he never came up with a way to fight off the swift boat smears or the flipflopper claims.
- dave 9-06-2008 3:07 pm
right, a balance. every morning they should take 3 minutes, correct the lies for the record and then move on to their real material and days work.
kerry was done in by "their" framing and their talking points. never set the agenda himself.
also: yesterday mccain re-used palins e.bay/plane auction fabrication. actually saying that it was "sold" on ebay and for a "profit." two lies. that misrepresentation was caught three days ago! we know it and he still doesnt?? out of touch???
edited for additional thought while jim l was posting.:
additionally we now know since yesterday that it was sold to an alaskan inside contributer as a sweet deal. hence the careful wording in palins speech: "put on ebay" not "sold on ebay."
- bill 9-06-2008 3:18 pm
At least in her speech Palin's comment was less a fabrication than literary license to make it sound better. It was definitely misleading but not an outright lie. She only said she put the plane on Ebay, which is true. It just didn't sell there. McCain on the other hand...
- jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:27 pm
Dammit Bill, you just keep on editing, make it sound like I didn't read your original comment. I'll just learn to wait on you a while longer.
- jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:29 pm
sorry. im a little slow. ill write edited in.
- bill 9-06-2008 3:30 pm
I forgive you brother. Meanwhile, even though it would seem the Dems should have plenty of ammunition to beat the hell out of the Red Menace, I think we should all be looking for people we know who may not be registered, and get them registered, and you know, voting for the right candidate.
- jimlouis 9-06-2008 3:36 pm
the sweatheart deal is really the only story if there is one. also, the ebay was sort of a shout out to meg whitman, former ceo of ebay, who is one of mccains campaign chairs and who spoke at the convention before palin.
btw, im not anxious to get bogged down in this type of nonsense although it does speak to the larger notion of the republicans pathological need to lie. the truthiness shall set them free as it were.
- dave 9-06-2008 3:44 pm
"the sweatheart deal is really the only story"
right. except, now there is the preemptive cover story (with motive), fabrication, misrepresenation or lie depending on who and when its mentioned.
"the larger notion of the republicans pathological need to lie."
thats the story jerry!
- bill 9-06-2008 3:57 pm
im sorry to say im leaving my position as campaign adviser to spend more time with my family. not coincidentally ive been asked to join cnns remarkable lineup of heroes, the best damn political team on television. that theyre paying me ten times as much money to deliver platitudes was entirely unrelated. i wish my friends in the obama camp well but ill be purely objective in my coverage of them from now on.
- dave 9-06-2008 4:07 pm
Jerry's Disco, lol! Gotta love the original cast of SNL. Although I didn't recognize Ms. Whirlygig in the foreground.
- mark 9-06-2008 4:17 pm
I think the Dems need to use a combination of anger and ridicule to punch holes in the propaganda. And they need to tell their own story. Based on my experiences in Space City in recent days, there's a whole lot of ignorance they have to combat in the next few weeks.
The Repubs have been successful in dealing with tight elections by motivating their base. Their job this time is to get their base to hold their noses and vote McCain. The Honky Mom angle helps a lot with the fundy whackos.
For the Dems, JimL is right, the key to motivating the base is getting natural Dems to get off their asses and participate. Every one who lives in a swing state (cough) Virginia (cough) needs to get their butts in gear.
- mark 9-06-2008 4:24 pm
I think the dems should have one major talking point - the Iraq war is costing us 340 million dollars a day. No matter what comes up just keep hammering that. 343 million dollars every single day. We could fix any and every problem in this country if we weren't wasting 343 million dollars a day. That's 2 and a half BILLION dollars a week!
"How much did you make last week my friends? Well George Bush and John McCain spent 2 and a half BILLION dollars last week on an unnecessary war in Iraq. That's two thousand five hundred million dollars. LAST WEEK. That's money that could have been spent on schools; on health care; on police and fire departments; on building better levees in New Orleans; on buying ponies for everyone in America! Do you want to keep wasting 2 and a half Billion dollars a week? Vote for John McCain. If you want to fix America vote for Barack Obama."
I think most voters only care about money. Everything else is a sideshow. And the Republicans - who are spending more than any previous administration in the history of our country - have somehow convinced people that the Democratic party is going to spend all their money. Change that and we win; ignore it and we really might lose.
- jim 9-06-2008 4:34 pm
I want a pony.
- jimlouis 9-06-2008 6:37 pm
Well, if that's what you really want ... a pony.
- mark 9-06-2008 11:11 pm
There are ponies and there are ponies.
- alex 9-07-2008 1:43 am
- bill 9-07-2008 2:39 am
Who knew political discourse could be so much fun.
- jimlouis 9-07-2008 3:09 pm
"I mean, you can't just make stuff up. You can't just recreate yourself. You can't just reinvent yourself. The American people aren't stupid,"
thats a good start. lets see if it sticks to the wall or needs more juice.
- bill 9-09-2008 4:30 pm
I don't know, with that statement he might be losing the self-help book readers vote.
- jimlouis 9-09-2008 6:31 pm
for me, this guy westen nailed it. i hope they were listening. his blog
- bill 9-13-2008 11:10 am
why... / schmidt
- bill 9-14-2008 4:12 am
he's very good.
- mark 9-14-2008 10:20 pm