- L.M. 6-17-2008 5:32 am


- sally mckay 6-17-2008 3:56 pm

Damn it, now I have to hate you for thinking this up and then being funnier than me. (And we were getting along so well lately.)
- L.M. 6-17-2008 5:12 pm

"thinking this up" is a funny way to describe following one's most base and stupid impulses.
- sally mckay 6-17-2008 5:21 pm

I haven't thought of it that way, and I DON'T INTEND TO,
otherwise the popsicle sticks and elmer's glue holding my Net Aesthetic 2.0 universe together will crash to the ground.
- L.M. 6-17-2008 5:28 pm

mmmm....elmer's glue
- sally mckay 6-17-2008 5:58 pm

That's an odd site you found.
Now that I've thrown my sausage into the fire over at the rhizome thread I've somehow been liberated to comment everywhere. I'm an white guy with an opinion, everyone listen to me! In my defense I think I made an excellent point that was being ignored by the masses. (my post is currently in "moderation")

- joester (guest) 6-17-2008 8:20 pm

give us the link to your burning sausage, Joester.
- sally mckay 6-17-2008 8:39 pm

no way dude. Plus I didn't go by joester so you'll never find me.
- joester (guest) 6-17-2008 8:44 pm

Yeah, he went by the name Joe McKay. I almost missed it , because I thought: Who's that? I'm not going to read his comment. I'm skipping over it. Who is he anyway? Some a-hole who's always extending the metaphor beyond usefulness.

In fact I read all the other comments to suss out what his comments were. It does take some extra time, but it's really worth it.

- L.M. 6-17-2008 9:01 pm

You made good points Joe McKay but you broke the unspoken rhizome rule and made reference to actual works by actual artists in the context of a specific environment! Also you neglected to inform us what constitutes art and what doesn't and what artists should or should not do. Otherwise, right on the mark.
- sally mckay 6-17-2008 9:53 pm

All artists should be like me, only not as good (obviously) because I'm the best. That clear things up?
- joester (guest) 6-17-2008 10:16 pm

Some of those argument are pushing me into the open arms of the defaults. (the defaults, waiting to love me, to accept me, not to ask too much of me because I have better things to do and will only program if I'm paid)
- L.M. 6-17-2008 10:36 pm

That Rhizome thread with "Joe McKay" devolved into the usual quicksand of people saying they don't really understand the topic and maybe we're all talking about the same thing.

With some of them, at some point, you are asking yourself "How much do they know? Do I have to explain who Roland Barthes is? Duchamp?"

But other people over there will bury you in theory references (UK theory such as Art & Language seems popular).

The basic problem is they want to say snide things like "to make art you must program" but when challenged refuse to own that they are in a camp and dedicated to not understanding any rival camp.

For example:

From what I'm gathering, the distinction is really between Internet/Computer-interested art versus Internet/Computer-activated art. It's kinda like people arguing over whether a house painter is someone who paints pictures of houses or paints the houses themselves.

AAAAAAAAAAAGH. No, that is not the distinction and yes, that is a rather terrible analogy. (Thank you for letting me use this thread to vent.)
- tom moody 6-19-2008 12:45 pm

(Also, "devolved" probably isn't the right word since the thread started with them comparing bloggers to George Bush.)
- tom moody 6-19-2008 1:22 pm

It's a Canadian safe house. All welcome. Okay its not really that safe, but vent away.
- sally mckay 6-19-2008 4:45 pm

You're totally safe with all of us sociopaths.
- L.M. 6-19-2008 5:59 pm

Not a huge Eco fan usually, but The Poetics of the Open Work is a text I'm re-reading and think is appropriate to the conversation.
Of course Eco is writing about experimental music not Surf clubs, but I think it's a good essay to look at regardless.

"The poetics of the "work in movement" (and partly that of the "open" work) sets in motion a new cycle of relations between the artist and his audience, a new mechanics of aesthetic perception, a different status for the artistic product in contemporary society. It opens a new page in sociology and in pedagogy, as well as a new chapter in the history of art. It poses new practical problems by organizing new communicative situations. In short, it installs a new relationship between the contemplation and the utilization of a work of art."

- joester (guest) 6-20-2008 12:48 am

And what the hell! I'm trying to get work done and not ONE person has emailed me today. WTF people. How am I supposed to procrastinate with everyone else "knuckling down" like this. It turns out I suck at Everyday Shooter, so that's out. See what happens - I try to READ UMBERTO ECO.
- joester (guest) 6-20-2008 12:52 am

hat tip to K Lucas 2.0 for the article.
- joester (guest) 6-20-2008 2:07 am

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