The Bush 59 Million Need a Name

Cinque H. comments on the previous post's laundry list of things Bush voters are accountable for:
These kinds of shrill blanket recriminations get us nowhere. I appreciate that the bile will be flowing for a while (I have some of my own), but the real work will be in forming alternative visions over the next 4 years, not in sitting back, spitting hate rays at people who disagree with you.
If you leave out the curse words in anonymous's list, which express the anger many of us feel towards the very, um, strange 59 million that voted for Bush knowing everything we know about Bush, the list is a pretty reasonable summation of what those folks have done to us.

Alternative visions, absolutely. We do talk on this page about kicking the oil habit and bringing the troops home and taxing & regulating the have-too-muchs to help the have-too-littles. Kerry would have lost by a much wider margin if he'd clearly articulated any of those positions. Excuse some of us while we sit back stunned for a few moments, trying to get our minds around the fact that 59 million people voted proactively for Bush. It's hard to know what to say to these people going forward, in casual conversation. "So, torture photos?" "Into big deficits, are you?" "I could see where you might think Bush did pretty well in the debates." It's hard to even conceive how to reach across the aisle to talk about an alternative vision right now. So let us get our hating done.

Or not. First, what are we going to call the 59 million? One of their number who I personally know said, before the election, "This is the most divided the country has been since the Civil War" before proceeding to heap insults on critics of Bush. Well, in the Civil War you had Yanks and Rebs. I never particularly liked "red states" and "blue states." The 59 million need a name. The God Squad? Bushvoters? And speaking of hating, be sure to check out Abraham Kalashnikov's fine rant, also in the comments to the previous post. I'd post it here, but I do have family members who are Christians who I love and have broken bread with even though we vehemently disagree on many issues. Don't know if they voted for Bush--they think he's a Rockefeller liberal. In deference to them I'm going to struggle (not always succeed) to keep a moderate tone on the page.

UPDATE: Good "big picture" post from Steve Gilliard frames the issue as: Bushvoters' lives are wrecked by the economy, working 50 hour weeks, etc, and were suckered into blaming their misfortunes on gay marriage. How do we make them see what their real problems are?

- tom moody 11-04-2004 9:21 pm

I am so sad and so disappointed to see the kind of unvarnished, unnuanced, hateful invective that I used to associate only with conservatives. How let down I am.

I voted for Bill Clinton both times. If on the morrow of the second election someone--a Naderite say--had written to me and said, "you are personally accountable for every dead baby in Mogadishu, every death and illness that will result from the bombing of pharmaceutical plants in Khartoum, every burnt corpse in Waco, the steady increase in the gap between the rich and the poor, the massive weakening of international environmental and labor standards thanks to NAFTA, the inherent bigotry of the Defense of Marriage Act, etc., etc.," I would have said, of course I'm not. That's ridiculous, even though all of that and more did happen under Clinton's first term.

It is sheer hysteria to say that because of a single vote you become directly responsible for every piece of the entire range of social and political events that occur over the course of 4 years. That is ridiculous.

As long as the best explanation for Bush's win that folks can come up with is that those people are "strange," then it's going to be a long, long journey back. When we can be a little more insightful, we may have a shot.

Kalashnikov indeed. There is a snapshot of why we may very well lose again in another 4 years.
- Cinque H. 11-04-2004 11:42 pm

YOU BET my "snapshot" is a picture of why you WILL LOSE in another 4 years : because the kinds of religious no-culture sub-morons that I wrote about are exactly the kinds of dumbasses who make up the large majority of the population of America. Wake up to reality... it's really ugly, fat and stupid.
- Abraham Kalashnikov (guest) 11-05-2004 1:06 am

Cinque H. - I'm sorry you are sad and disappointed - have a nice mug of chamomile tea. I posted the list of things Bush voters have accountabilty for. Accountability and particularly accountability for being able to explain certain things is different than attributing direct responsibility from principal to agent. The list created itself without much effort because the record and pattern is there. One vote, one administration, the results (continuing). I think it is important to note these points and they are fairly and reasonably contained in the context of this administration per se though any intelligent person realizes deeper origins and systemic issues and we probably don't need to be reminded of that. I'm not ready to join the cluster fuck of "healing" before noting what I believe this one vote signifies and its weight on those who cast it and the outline of challenges that will need to be addressed by well meaning, smart, committed people on the other side of the barbed wire fence. Plans and committments for constructive engagements follow and while you are being sad and disappointed as to how we should be properly expressing our reactions to the outcome of this election some of us might be way ahead of you in putting their knowledge, committment, and plans to work so next time the accountability of that single vote will be ours in greater measure.
- SHM (guest) 11-05-2004 2:57 am

I'm not ready for any namby-pamby "healing" either, I am ready to stick my finger into the wound and watch the wounded squirm. It's just like the late, blessed Bill Hicks said about the first Bush : "How far up your ass does this guy's dick have to be before you realize he's fucking you?"
- Abraham Kalashnikov (guest) 11-05-2004 3:32 am


This last post is so much more interesting and so much more useful than the other post. This post talks about ideas in a way that actually mirrors the complexity of real life rather than flattening it.

You allude to knowledge, committment and plans being put to work. That's cool. I'd be interested to hear your ideas about the future.

Thanks for this post, which reinvigorates my sense that it's still possible to have a real discussion.

I'm out of chamomile tea, though that does sound good. Earller, I tried to make mint tea, but being caught up in writing the above post, I almost burned the house down.

Take care and peace,

- Cinque H. 11-05-2004 3:52 am

Cracker Belt ...
Red(neck) States ...
Fag Haters ...
Ay-rab Haters ...
Coalition of the Fag Haters, Ay-rab Haters and Tax Haters ...
Reptile-Brained Freedom Haters ...

Maybe I'll come up with something more constructive, but now? At this moment? Not gonna happen.
- mark 11-05-2004 7:46 am

having been a liberal democrat all my life who went to art schhol, bfa and mfa, I can honestly say I am embarrassed by this dialogue given by the left. I have "grown up" and realized all those 20 somethings who have lots o' time on their hands, money and what else keeps them satisfied while they rot in society, and complain about the most absurd things...I would rather vote for a republican...
I think of the matthew shepard stuff, I think of racism in the 50's and many, many more examples of hate in this country and I plop all those leftist right next to people who have caused evil in this world. How dare anyone express ANYTHING about people's belief's...SO WHAT if people read the bible, SO WHAT if people are farmers, working class...those people have more class and love for the human race than any college hateing bigot could ever have. I cannot believe what those kids are saying..ITS OVER!!!! get on with your life and start being constructive..please. You all deserve a is amazing, the 60's created this "peace and love every where"...and all those kids who aspire to do exactly that have done just the opposite...go back to mommy and daddy...learn how to grow up and realize how to work with people, not against them.
- anonymous (guest) 11-06-2004 5:16 pm

I think the issue here is Bush started a war against a nation that posed no threat to us. To fight it, he is using systematic torture and indiscriminate bombing. It is another Vietnam. By "growing up" and "voting Republican" 59 million people just endorsed that. Your assumptions about the socioeconomics of the people posting on this page are another form of hate rhetoric. I'm flattered you think I'm a 20-something, though.
- tom moody 11-06-2004 5:43 pm

Anon, I'm not sure how to respond to that incoherent screed, so let me put on my "grown-up" voice.

I subsidize the cracker belt by creating wealth (mostly for my investors, but they let me keep a little), bolstering our economy (to the tune of 9 figure corporate revenue), and paying more federal taxes in a decade than most of the fag haters pay in a life time. Further, I actually find the time in my busy day to know what the fuck is going on in this country and the world.

And this shit ain't over. Oh, it's on!

- mark 11-06-2004 10:34 pm

Who said anything about farmers? For what it is worth, I think that real farming (biodynamic organic) is the most valuable and noble profession that a human being can have.
- Abraham Kalashnikov (guest) 11-06-2004 11:29 pm

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