picture it
- dave 12-03-2001 3:09 am [add a comment]

Here's a non evil empire link.
- jim 12-03-2001 2:53 pm [add a comment]

• how am i going to go shopping with thing and then haul three bags of groceries? its nice to have an 'intelligent key' to thwart thieves. now if it had some volts to dissuade thieves i would be impressed. i would be impressed if they developed a failsafe locking mechanism for it.
  - dave 12-03-2001 6:00 pm [add a comment]




• Yeah, that thing would be stolen in 2 minutes if you locked it up outside. I'm not exactly getting the "breakthrough" part either.
  - jim 12-03-2001 6:09 pm [add a comment]

Here's the /. discussion, and Here's the segway website, although it is completely slashdotted right now.
- jim 12-03-2001 2:58 pm [add a comment]

• I hate it / it's no skateboard, not even a razor in terms of applied realworld use. longboards rule.
  - bill 12-03-2001 6:13 pm [add a comment]




• so ugly. can tell it's made in america.....now if italy was producing this thing - THEN we might see some style-y looks.
  - linda 12-03-2001 10:57 pm [add a comment]




• Yeah, but if Italian's made one it would be in the shop most of the time.
  I think Segue seems like a really great vehicle. It seems sensible and cheap (couple of cents worth of electricity a day) Why are you folks so down on it? I've heard many of you bitch about suv's at one time or another for being inefficiant fuel hogs, status symbols, over designed etc..... I'm all for it, in a city like Sanfrancisco or Los Angeles I think this would be a real alternative to driving.
  Bucky would love it.
  Fossil fuel, Bah! Let's get on with it.
  - steve 12-03-2001 11:06 pm [add a comment]




• Can anybody give me even one way in which this is better than a bike?
  
  Well, OK, it looks like it might be really fun, I'll grant, but I mean in a "solve the problems of the world" way. Seems to me a bike is faster, cheaper, lighter, can carry more cargo, can be fixed by a non computer/gyroscopic engineer without access to proprietary design information, uses less non-renewable energy sources, and is more beneficial to human health. What am I missing? Outside of the fun aspect, why would I spend $3000 (!!!) on this when I can get a good bike for $300, or a crappy used one for $30 (or for $3 in this neighborhood)?
  
  I actually thought it might be a flying machine. :-(
  - jim 12-03-2001 11:35 pm [add a comment]




• I agree with the people powered device advantage. Why do parents buy their children those little electric cars when they should be developing strenth from peddeling. skateboards, bikes, rollerblades, razor scooters, rollerskates spring loaded jogging shoes (ok not them), hang gliders, cross-country ski's, speed walking, jogging, snowboarding etc are the answer not pricy top heavy jimcracks. I'm picturing the ginger jam in front of balducci's, hit and run shoppers on madison ave. and A holes in airports. This is not a peoples device.
  - bill 12-04-2001 2:13 am [add a comment]




• Not all people can or want to ride a bicycle, they require a fair amount of work. Sure, they may be GOOD for you but there is a real appeal to having a machine do the work instead. That's one of the reasons people like cars and motorcycles. A traffic jam in front of Balducci's? Those take place at least twice a day already. And these things take up far less room than a car does. How many commutors drive by themselves into the city on nice days wrapped in their two-ton, gas guzzeling, polluting, dangerous vehicles?
  OK, so it isn't too cool, it looks like a push lawn mower, so it ain't a flying machine, but if people could give up their love affair's with the automobile I think this thing could really help to cut down on the world's consumption of gasoline. Bill, I understand why a bicycle and scateboard enthusiast such as yourself wouldn't be interested, but not all people are as fitness oriented as you......
  - steve 12-04-2001 4:46 am [add a comment]




• I was just riffing and I liked skateboards for transportation as much as recreation (fitness !?), but I dont know who would use this item. As an automobile replacement, the first level to aproach would be the suburban "station car" (typically a compact). Thats the car that gets dad from his house to the rr station to get to work in town. Does it compete with peds on the sidewalk or compete with the cars, trucks and busses in the street at 17 mph. More likely it will be a bridge between your Chevy Surburban and say, the entrance to the mall and back. What about urban use ? Street or sidewalk ? Ok, maybe bike lanes. Do you see bike messengers using it instead of 10 speeds, mountain bikes or mopeds with a full bag of mail. I saw a brief vid clip on cbs news last night (no safty helmet?). They really do zip though. Shriners could turn in the go-carts and use these things for fig. 8's in parades. Better get a crash fez!
  
  
  - bill 12-04-2001 3:09 pm [add a comment]




• I believe that there are many cases where the sedan is used to haul nothing more than one ass and a wallet from the outskirts of town to the center. Why not build a "ginger lane"? No, I don't think a mountain biker would turn in his bicycle for such a device. And bike messengers will no doubt scoff. I probably wouldn't use one in this city either, I almost always choose to walk. I doubt if this thing would get anyone to sell their car, but that's not the intent of the Ginger folks. It would be used in place of the car for those stupid errands in a city like Los Angeles. Where the distances to the post office or deli are a half an hour by foot and the side walks are empty. In a city like Portland or Seattle there are such steep hills that riding a bicycle is serious work, more than most people are capable of. They don't ride their bicycles now, they drive.
  
  - steve 12-04-2001 5:59 pm [add a comment]




• I finally waded through much of the underwhelmed response posted in the above /. link. From what I can tell this is perhaps not for most Americans out side of Mailmen, Warehouse Workers and Robot Warriors. I think the upright posture and max speed limits the length of the commute and the window of age for those capable and responsible enough to actually run IT safely. Pluss its hot in the summer, cold in the winter and useless in foul weather of all sorts. However there is much hope that it appears in next seasons JackAss shows (if there are any).
  - bill 12-04-2001 8:01 pm [add a comment]




• One of the links Dave posted claimed that IT works over ice. Glazing is a big problem in the Northwest. My own experiences with "ice storms" are that nothing but golf shoes work on a heavily iced over street, not studded tires, chains boots etc. I've seen countless cars and jeeps slipping sideways down a steep hill coming to rest against a guard rail or Douglas Fir. Maybe Ginger could be the safest mode of transport in such conditions.
  Whatever, I'm hopeful that this device could be a practical mode of transport. But it'll probably not happen here, we're too steeped in the culture of the automobile. In a city like Paris or Taiwan where a significant chunk of the population use scooters IT might really make a difference.
  - steve 12-04-2001 8:18 pm [add a comment]




• My thoughts for an improved American transport system run more toward a lightrail system of hub and spokes connecting to fast trains. Think of the enhanced comfort level over the full exposure to elements of IT. I'm tired of the problematics of air travel and think interlinked fast rail service is the answer (including freight / those semi trucks are murder). The IT could get you to your local lightrail station and then train it from there / but I dont think anyone feels the need for one to get them to/from the subway and most burb folks take a local bus to the train station (that could be improved). A seperate ginger road lane would require it's own Robert Moses to commandeer space in high density areas for a few capable users going, what is it, 12 to 17 mph ?.
  
  
  - bill 12-04-2001 9:19 pm [add a comment]




• news
  - news- (guest) 8-09-2004 11:23 am [add a comment] [edit]




• Here is the website of the flying version of the Segway. It's the Hiller Flying Platform (circa 1955) and it looks fun. I want one.
  
  http://www.hiller.org/exhibits/online-exhibits/flying-platform/flying-platform.html
  - anonymous (guest) 4-24-2003 8:23 pm [add a comment] [edit]




• Fascinating, thanks! I've never heard of it before. It really does stir the imagination. Much cooler than the Bell rocket belt.
  - tom moody 4-24-2003 8:34 pm [add a comment]




• I personally cannot argue with the value of human powered transport, but why must we choose "muscle" or "motor" when there is no implied mutual exclusion. Let's face it, this could be a great augmentation. It takes up about as much floor space as a person would anyway, it can go at speeds slow enough to not be a hazard in malls or stores, and you can park it in your cube with you at work. Most of the public transport systems are designed to only carry 2 bicycles max, because a bike takes up a lot of room. If you can still ride a bike, or need that little extra bit of cargo capacity, then stay with the bike. But not everybody can use bikes, boards, scooters, or even hike that far. My knees are going out on me, and if I ride up a hill of moderate size, I can't bike for a week. As for the original argument of "has it been over hyped?", no. It has been over hyped for people that would research it out, but with the average American attention span being measured in seconds now, maybe we need to focus on hype for things we care about rather than reasonable arguments. An informational presentation will usually take at least 6 minutes while a commercial that sells an extended cab 4x4 pickup truck just waves a flag at us for 30 seconds. Maybe the problem with getting people to adopt a non-destructive way of life is the lack of well designed, broadly viewed, non-accusatory blip-verts associated with it all. I think that it is time for some extra hype about something that just may be a step toward changing the world. If you need to escape the hype, read a good book. I’ll guarantee that there are no banner ads, radio spots, or commercial breaks about the Segway in “The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.” Just don’t read while riding your bike.
  - Arlough (guest) 4-24-2003 8:14 pm [add a comment] [edit]




• Hi Arlough.
  
  It's funny, I was just thinking about the Segway again today, as I noticed a report that the New York State Senate is considering a bill which would permit them on the sidewalks everywhere except NYC (where a lot of us live.) I can't tell if these means they would be prohibited in NYC, or if it just means that the state senate will leave that question up to the city.
  
  Your concern about knees, and aging, are well taken. Especially given the demographic bulge of our population here in the U.S. Note that the Segway is a successor to the most advanced wheel chair in the world.
  
  But I don't think you can say it wasn't overhyped. John Dorr said it was going to be "more important than the internet" although "less important than cold fusion." !!! If that's not overhype I'm not sure what that word might mean.
  
  And I think partly when people say overhyped they mean overpriced. 5K! C'mon. You can see where the negativity comes from. It should definitely fly for that price (another thing people were unrealistically expecting.)
  - jim 4-24-2003 9:40 pm [add a comment]




• ive softened my possition a little sine that post. They really seem to run smooth and nice. I saw a documentary on Dorr since then and am not won over by the man. he seems to feel entitled to a segway right of way. as evidenced by jim above re nys bill. I thinks they would be the suv of sidewalk traffic (esp in nyc) and just because it can go slow doesnt mean it will be used safely in high density locals. imaging getting clobered by that thing. and that price ! also, you cant park your bike in your cubical how could you park this roadwarrior there. but really i want to like it, i think.
  - bill 4-24-2003 10:46 pm [add a comment]

flash page and a weblog
- dave 12-04-2001 6:07 am [add a comment]

Well, not to blog a dead horse or anything, but here are some more thoughts. First, I think there will be more to this story. And I think the big deal will turn out to be the gyroscopic stabilization system. Remember that Kamen is really into helicopters (he owns two, one of which he helped design; he's a helicopter pilot; he flys a helicopter to work.) There actually might be something to all the personal flying craft rumors. Stabilization is the key to making something like that, and it might be the case that he has solved those problems with segway. I'm no engineer, but I'm guessing that segway could be a proof of concept for the stabilizer that will be used to create a personal flying machine. This might help explain why some seemingly knowledgable people made some truely outrageous claims as to the import of this device. Perhaps those luminaries were given the entire pitch ("And then in round two we'll introduce the flying machine using the same gyroscopic system...")

Another different direction to think in was pointed out by David McCusker. This thing might well have military backing. It does seem like a perfect platform to build robot soldier type things on top of. A remote controled gun and video camera mounted on this platform (so it could move over broken ground while keeping the gun fairly stable and level) would be pretty cool.

In any case, I still want to ride one. And after seeing a couple of quick clips on TV I want to try it even more. It does look like a lot of fun.
- jim 12-04-2001 5:18 pm [add a comment]

• I was thinking the same thing, that the real big news of IT is the gyroscopic stabilization. There must be countless applications for such a device. I like the way Kamen describes driving IT as "bending space" (or something like that, sorry to paraphrase, I'm just not gonna go back and read all those links to find the exact quote) I'm hoping that such langauge hints at something bigger than a scooter, but it might just be wacky inventor speak or savy language of a marketing campaign.
  - steve 12-04-2001 8:28 pm [add a comment]




• Can anyone point out a shematic of the mechanics. The gyro sounds like a horizontal flyweel. My guess is that this grounding effect probably accounts for 2/3 it's total weight. Note the distance of the rider from the ground.
  
  
  - bill 12-04-2001 9:47 pm [add a comment]




• I haven't seen schematics, but I think there are 5 gyroscopes in this thing. My guess is that most of the weight (and the space in the bottom part of the unit) are for the battery. Batteries are really heavy.
  - jim 12-04-2001 10:31 pm [add a comment]




• That sounds right about the batteries. The Segway page was not forthcoming with real deatils. The patent drawing was even more exageratedly tall in the saddle. Your probably also also right about the real story being the pattents on the gyros for future aplications. Meantime they'll be sold to industry, the postal service and the type of person who can afford them. Before everyone could afford lace up rollerskates you could rent them at a rink. Who wants to open the Chelsea pier concession ? Final product not too hard on the eyes but I'd still watch my toes when they start cutting through crowds at any speed.
  
  
  - bill 12-05-2001 12:06 am [add a comment]

Here's a wired article that attempts to explain how segway works. "It's not inconceivable that future products could go one and a half to two times faster, and still keep its balance." Cool.
- jim 12-09-2001 4:24 pm [add a comment]

• a joke on snl news last night said that segway had revolutionized the way to get hit by a car.
  - dave 12-09-2001 8:09 pm [add a comment]

segway test trials
- dave 12-11-2001 3:57 pm [add a comment]

Dave Winer got to try one last night. Seems fun.
- jim 12-11-2001 4:10 pm [add a comment]

- anonymous (guest) 1-20-2003 10:16 am [add a comment]

end of story
- bill 9-27-2010 3:39 pm [add a comment]